The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 89 Show Notes – Women in Security Pt6

Ready for another installment of the UNSECURITY Women in Security Podcast Series?

NOTE: I forgot to post these notes ahead of the podcast recording. Episode 89 with Judy Hatchett was awesome! It’s been recorded and published here. THANK YOU JUDY! Now the show notes…

We have another GREAT special guest joining us! One of my favorites, Judy Hatchett, Vice President and Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) at Surescripts will share her story and opinions in this episode (#89).

First, a quick recap of the Women in Security series thus far…

Women in Security Series

Brad and I started this series because we wanted to learn more about challenges women face in the information security industry. It would be shallow and dry if Brad and I chose to discuss this subject ourselves. Instead, we chose to interview women that we know and ones who were referred to us.

What better way to get a woman’s perspective on things than to ask them directly?!

So far, we’ve had five women join us as guests on the show. Each woman brought her own set of experiences, perspectives, and opinions. No two guests have been alike, and we’ve learned a TON!

Here’s our guest line up thus far:

  • Episode 84 – Renay Ruter (an information security business/IT executive)
  • Episode 85 – Lori Blair (a 35-year information security veteran)
  • Episode 86 – Victoria Fogarty (relatively new to the industry)
  • Episode 87 – Kristin Judge (founder and CEO of the Cybercrime Support Network, SC Media “Women in IT Security Influencer” in 2017, former Director of Government Affairs at the National Cyber Security Alliance (NCSA), thought leader, and all-around amazing information security expert)
  • Episode 88 – Andrea Hatcher (Senior majoring in Cybersecurity Analytics and Operations at Pennsylvania State University)
  • Episode 89 – Judy Hatchett (this show) (Information security corporate leader and expert formerly with Accenture, Best Buy, SUPERVALU, 3M, Fairview Health Services, and current VP, Information Security and CISO at Surescripts)
  • Episode 90 – Amy McLaughlin (Information security leader and expert in education, having served with the State of Oregon, the Consortium for School Network (CoSN), Chemeketa Community College, and Oregon State University)
  • Episode 91 – Theresa Semmens (Chief Information Security Officer at the Nevada System of Higher Education, former AVP/Chief Information Security Officer at the University of Miami, and former Chief Information Security Officer at North Dakota State University)
    /not-yet-confirmed (information security executive in healthcare, CISO in higher education, or senior information security sales executive)
  • Episode 92 – Lee Ann Villella (Senior Enterprise Security Sales Consultant at FRSecure, Program Director for the Minnesota Chapter of the Information Systems Security Association, and member of the Cyber Security Summit Advisory Board Committee)
  • Episode 93 – TBD/not-yet-confirmed (information security executive in healthcare, CISO in higher education, or senior information security sales executive)

This is an amazing lineup of information security professionals! These women represent our information security industry extremely well, and we’re honored to speak with each of them on our show!

Here’s what we’ve done so far…

Women in Security Series – Part One

We kicked off the Women in Security series on June 15th, and we couldn’t have chosen a better first guest! Renay Rutter, FRSecure’s COO, got the series started by sharing the experience, wisdom, and insight she’s gained over her 30+ year IT career. Renay expressed how important it has been for her to be strong throughout her career, and in her opinion, women need to be strong to survive in the information security industry. This was a great show!

If you missed this episode, you can catch up here; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unsecurity-episode-84-women-in-security-pt-1-renay-rutter/id1442520920?i=1000478037575

Thank you Renay!

Women in Security Series – Part Two

We kept things in the FRSecure family for week two, hosting Lori Blair. Lori is full of information security knowledge and wisdom! She started her career in the industry in 1985, working for the federal government. Over the next 35 years, she’s traveled the world helping organizations with their information security needs and held various leadership positions. She’s excelled everywhere she’s gone and even found time to raise children along the way! Today, Lori is a Senior Information Security Consultant at FRSecure, tackling difficult challenges and mentoring other women.

I have a TON of respect for Lori, and her opinions carry weight for me (and many others). It’s not just her experience that makes Lori amazing, she’s a wonderful, practical, and level-headed person who loves mentoring others. This is a can’t miss episode, go give a listen here; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unsecurity-episode-85-women-in-security-pt-2-lori-blair/id1442520920?i=1000479175255

Thank you Lori!

Women in Security Series – Part Three

We welcomed up and comer Victoria Fogarty to the show for Part Three. Victoria is an Associate Information Security Analyst at FRSecure, where she started her career in 2019. She possesses natural gifts for this industry, and her perspectives were fresh. She’s intelligent, relatable, and an excellent communicator. She did a great job explaining how she researched a career in information security while she was an Insurance Adjuster, a job she disliked. Her journey is pretty cool so far, and her future is VERY bright! She even shared a shocker (at least for Brad and me) in this episode. Definitely worth the listen!

If you missed episode 86, here it is; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unsecurity-episode-86-women-in-security-pt-3-victoria/id1442520920?i=1000480167348

Thank you Victoria!

Women in Security Series – Part Four

Kristin was our first non-FRSecure guest in the series. This was a great interview! Kristin shared how she got her introduction to information security while she was serving as an elected official (Washtenaw County Commissioner). She has an incredible journey so far, especially considering she has only been in the industry for a little more than 10 years.

She held some very exciting roles before founding the Cybercrime Support Network in late-2017. Her passion for helping people is inspiring, and we’re looking forward to making a difference in this industry together!

Learn about Kristin Judge, her journey, her opinions, and her work founding and running the Cybercrime Support Network in episode 87. If you missed it, go give it a listen; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unsecurity-episode-87-women-in-security-pt-4-kristin-judge/id1442520920?i=1000482892565

Truly an amazing person; we loved chatting with her!

Thank you Kristin!

Women in Security Series – Part Five

It was a pleasure having Andrea join us in this episode! She is a Senior at Pennsylvania State University (Penn State), majoring in Cybersecurity Analytics and Operations. She is an avid listener to our show who contacted us through email about a question she had. She was shocked and VERY appreciative when we asked her to join us. We were pleasantly surprised by how well-spoken and determined she was.

Andrea has an incredible future ahead of her in the information security industry! Here’s her take on things in episode 88, WARNING: You’ll be impressed!

Thank you Andrea!

This brings us to today’s episode…

Women in Security Series – Part Six

Today’s guest is Judy Hatchett, a top-notch, no nonsense information security leader. She is the first Chief Information Security Officer we’ve had on the show in the series, and she’s more than worthy. We first met Judy back when she was the CISO at Fairview, and we’ve  been cheering her on (from a distance) in her new role at Surescripts. You’re going to love her perspectives and opinions!

WELCOME JUDY!

 

Let’s get to the show, shall we?

Brad’s leading the show this week, and these are his notes…


SHOW NOTES – Episode 89

Date: Monday, July 20th, 2020

Episode 89 Topics

  • Opening
  • Introducing Our Special Guest: Judy Hatchett (Vice President and Chief Information Security Officer at Surescripts)
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • Women in Security
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Brad] Welcome back! This is episode 89 of the UNSECURITY Podcast, and I’m your host this week, Brad Nigh. Today is July 20th, and joining me this morning as usual is Evan Francen. Good morning Evan.

[Evan] Cue Evan

[Brad] Today we’re recording Part Six of the Women in Security Series, and I’m excited to welcome our guest! She’s someone we greatly respect and someone with the experience to demand it! Today we welcome Judy Hatchett (Information security corporate leader and expert formerly with Accenture, Best Buy, SUPERVALU, 3M, Fairview Health Services, and current VP, Information Security and CISO at Surescripts) to the show. Welcome Judy!

[Judy] We know Judy and we expect something positive and/or funny

[Brad] Before we get going let’s recap our week.

Catching Up

[Evan] I don’t know if I talked to Evan since the last podcast (episode 88), I don’t know what’s up…

[Brad] And how about you Judy?

[Judy] Probably something cool…

Quick discussion about last week, the weekend, or whatever else comes to mind.

  • How are you guys?
  • Tell me about your weekend quick.
  • Anything in particular that you’re excited about?

[Brad] Thanks guys! Alright, let’s get to it.

Women in Security, Part Six

[Brad] This is the sixth week of our series discussing the topic of women in the information security industry.  I think we are starting to see some commonalities from the last five guests and I’m curious to see if Judy has similar insights. I’m also really looking forward to hearing another “outsider’s” perspective and continue this conversation. So with that let’s dive in!

Do we have a shortage of women in our industry? If so, what’s the big deal? Why is the topic important for us to talk about? Lot’s of questions and I’m sure just about everyone has an opinion. Instead of people listening to our opinions, we’re going to talk to the people this relates to the most; women! What better way to get a woman’s perspective on things than to talk to a woman? Let’s do this.

Open Discussion (~30 minutes)

  • How did you get started in this field (information security)?
  • Tell us how you got to where you’re at today.
  • Each of the ladies we’ve had on the show has given us some great insight and wisdom:
    • Part 1 – Renay mentioned the importance of being strong.
    • Part 2 – Lori mentioned the importance of mentoring
    • Part 3 – Victoria mentioned the importance of staying focused.
    • Part 4 – Kristin mentioned the importance of being yourself.
    • Part 5 – Andrea mentioned the importance of finding support.
    • Have you listened to what these ladies had to say in their interviews? If so, what were your thoughts?
  • What advice do you have for someone who’s just starting out?
  • Have you experienced the “bro culture” in our industry? If so, can you share the experience with us?
  • Have you heard about our (alleged) industry talent shortage?
    • Do you think we need more women in our industry and why?
    • Opinions about the talent shortage in our industry.
  • What can we do better in recruiting more people, and specifically more women in our industry?
  • Whatever else we’d like to share.

[Brad] Thank you Judy! Good information and things to think about more. Much appreciated! How about some quick news stuff?

Judy, please stick around. If you’ve got anything to add to our commentary, please don’t hesitate.

News

[Brad] More newsy things…

Lastly, I don’t think we need to spend any time on it as it’s been covered extensively but I thought Krebs had a really good writeup on the Twitter hack that the listeners will probably enjoy.

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Brad] There you go, episode 89 is in the bag. Thank you Judy for a great sixth installment of to the Women in Security series. Either of you have any shout outs this week?

[Evan and/or Judy] We’ll see.

[Brad] Thank you to all our listeners! Thank you to our listeners! Keep the questions and feedback coming. Send things to us by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @BradNigh, and Evan is @evanfrancen. Judy, is there a particular way you’d prefer people to find you?

Lastly, be sure to follow SecurityStudio (@studiosecurity) and FRSecure (@FRSecure) for more goodies.

That’s it! Talk to you all again next week!

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 86 Show Notes – Women in Security Pt3

Hoping everyone reading this is healthy and doing well. Losing focus on what matters is too easy in today’s craziness. Reach out to someone if you need a listen.

Women in Security Series

Well, we’re a couple weeks into the Women in Security Series, and so far the feedback has been great! Brad and I continue to learn great things from our guests. We’re not sure yet how long the series will go yet, but we have guests booked for the next six (6) shows (after this one). So, we DO know the Women in Security Series will go through (at least) episode 92 (August 10th). The guests we have lined up are incredible:

  • Today – Victoria Fogarty (see below)
  • Episode 87 – CEO of an information security-related non-profit
  • Episode 88 – A Senior, majoring in Cybersecurity Analytics and Operations at a leading university
  • Episode 89 – A CISO from a really cool large company
  • Episodes 90 through 92 – A CISO working in healthcare, a renowned educator, and a cool lady working in information security sales.

This journey is just getting started!

Women in Security Series – Part One

We kicked off the Women in Security series on June 15th, and we couldn’t have chosen a better first guest! Renay Rutter, FRSecure’s COO, got the series started with sharing her experience, wisdom, and insight she’s gained over her 30+ year IT career. Brad and I learned a ton!

If you missed this episode, you can catch up here; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unsecurity-episode-84-women-in-security-pt-1-renay-rutter/id1442520920?i=1000478037575

Thank you Renay!

Women in Security Series – Part Two

We kept things in the FRSecure family for week two, hosting Lori Blair. Lori is a treasure chest of information security knowledge and wisdom, beginning from when she started her information security career in 1985. Think about that for a second; 1985?! For the math folks in the house, that’s 35 years!

I have a TON of respect for Lori, and her opinions carry weight for me (and many others). It’s not just her experience that makes Lori amazing, she’s a wonderful, practical, and level-headed person who loves mentoring others. This is a can’t miss episode, go give a listen here; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unsecurity-episode-85-women-in-security-pt-2-lori-blair/id1442520920?i=1000479175255

Thank you Lori!

Women in Security Series – Part Three

Here we are, Part Three. In episode 86 (this one), we’ll introduce you to Victoria Fogarty. Victoria works at FRSecure and does some pretty cool things around here. You’ll get to meet her and hear her perspective on all sorts of things, including the information security industry (as a whole), her journey, what it’s like to do what she does, etc. Victoria is a pretty cool lady, and you’ll definitely enjoy her energy!

WELCOME VICTORIA!

Let’s get on with the show!

I’m (Evan) leading the show this week, and these are my notes…


SHOW NOTES – Episode 86

Date: Monday, June 29th, 2020

Episode 86 Topics

  • Opening
  • Introducing Our Special Guest: Victoria Fogarty
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • Women in Security
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Evan] Hey all! Welcome to this episode, number 86, of the UNSECURITY Podcast! For those of you who are new to the show, I’m your host, Evan Francen, and the date is June 29th, 2020. We’re a good 100(ish) days into the COVID pandemic here in the States, so it’s easy to lose track of the date. At least for me it is! Joining me this morning is my good friend and colleague, Mr. Brad Nigh. Morning Brad!

[Brad] <<<INSERT BRAD’S GREETING HERE>>>

[Evan] We’re on our 3rd week of the Women in Security series, and I’m super excited to welcome our guest, Victoria Fogarty! Victoria works here at FRSecure and is an all-around awesome person! Join me in welcoming Victoria. Welcome Victoria!

[Victoria] Every time I’ve talked with Victoria, she’s always got energy and a GREAT attitude. Let’s see if this is true at 7am on Monday morning (when we record the UNSECURITY Podcast)

[Evan] You all know what we do first before jumping into business, we check in quick. What’s up guys? How you doing, and how was your weekend?

Catching Up

Quick discussion about last week, the weekend, or whatever else comes to mind.

[Brad] Guessing he got outside, did some family stuff, did some yard/garden work, made some sweet BBQ, and other cool things.

[Evan] Victoria, how about you?

[Victoria] Looking forward to this. I don’t really know what Victoria does for fun, hobbies, etc. Opportunity to learn.

[Evan] Ugh. Interesting weekend (aren’t they all?) here…

Alright, now on to our series topic.

Women in Security, Part Three

[Evan] This is the 3rd week in the Women in Security Series. It’s been a blast so far! Feedback keeps rolling in, and so do the guests. I’m excited to hear about Victoria’s perspectives because honestly, I don’t know many (if any) of them. This will be a great discussion!

So, Victoria, thanks again for joining us. Let’s start out with how you got started with information security.

Open Discussion (~30 minutes)

  • How you got into the industry?
  • Your journey in the industry.
  • Advice you have for someone starting out.
  • Do you think we need more women in our industry and why?
  • Opinions about the talent shortage in our industry.
  • What can we do better in recruiting more people, and specifically more women in our industry?
  • Whatever else we’d like to share.

[Evan] Thank you Victoria! Nice work! I’m sure our listeners learned some good things.

News

[Evan] Time for newsy things again. My God, there’s never a shortage of news, is there?! We could use an entire day and not cover it all. Our day jobs won’t allow us an entire day, so I’ll just take a few that caught my eye:

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Evan] There you have it. Episode 86 is almost in the books. Just wrapping up and shout outs before we go. Victoria, thank you for joining us. Also, thank you for sharing you story and your thoughts.

You’re going to enjoy next week’s guest too! We’re going outside FRSecure to get perspectives from women beyond these four walls. Going to be a great show!

Either of you have any shout outs this week?

[Brad and/or Victoria] We’ll see.

[Evan] Thank you listeners! You guys are pretty cool, I think. Send us your questions, feedback and suggestions by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. We still need to talk about the whole Mandiant, Capital One, incident response, confidential legal report thing. Ugh! Maybe next week.

Online social people can follow us on Twitter. I’m @evanfrancen and Brad is @BradNigh. Victoria, you got somewhere you want people to follow/interact with you?

[Victoria] Maybe/maybe not.

The companies we work for are pretty social too. SecurityStudio’s Twitter is @studiosecurity and FRSecure’s Twiiter is @FRSecure.

That’s it! Talk to you all again next week!

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 83 Show Notes – It’s About People

Ever have so many things going on that you can’t remember what happened last week? Yeah, that’s where I’m at right now.

Pretty sure Brad’s in the same place I am. So, rather than recapping everything (or trying to), I’ll just get to the show notes.

These are Brad’s show notes this week…


SHOW NOTES – Episode 83

Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020

Episode 83 Topics

  • Opening
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • Information Security Isn’t About Information or Security
  • Work, Life, and Mental Health
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Brad] Welcome back! This is episode 83 of the UNSECURITY Podcast, and I’m your host this week, Brad Nigh. Today is June 8th, and joining me this morning as usual is Evan Francen.

[Evan] Regales us with stories from the weekend. Oh God!

[Brad] Before we get going let’s recap our week.

Catching Up

Quick discussion about last week, the weekend, family, safety etc.

[Brad] What would you say you do here Evan?

[Evan] Hmmm. Good question! This outta be interesting.

Information Security Isn’t About Information or Security

Discussion about people, information security, working remote, stress, and overall mental health.

[Brad] Your blog from last Tuesday (Information Security Isn’t About Information or Security) really inspired me for this week’s podcast.  There have been countless articles written about how to secure remote workers so we aren’t going to focus on that, though it will probably come up in the course of this discussion.

Here’s the reality, it’s no secret that InfoSec and IT staff struggle with stress and a healthy work/life balance (Mental Health and Cybersecurity).  There really is no “done for the day”, systems can be attacked or suffer an outage anytime.  Add to that the now nearly 3 months of social distancing and quarantine that add even more stress.  We’ve seen an increase in cyber attacks the last 3 months and if your staff is struggling and has lost focus or is more distracted than usual your risk increases even more. So what can we do about it?  (Disclaimer, neither Evan or I are licensed mental health professionals and this conversation should not be taken as professional advice).

From an information security perspective I think you really captured the increased risks to organizations during this unprecedented time in your blog.

As a leader in an organization the employees’ health is critical, looking at it from a business perspective if they are not able to work we cannot deliver for our customers, but to me that feels cold & cynical.  I really do care for every one of our employees, I have a personal, vested interest in their well-being and want to be aware and in-touch with their status… That has become incredibly difficult during this time when you can’t read them face-to-face.

So what I want to do is talk about how we can be more aware and help reduce these risks.  First is being aware, I found these articles that I thought were really good to help identify and be proactive.

And then some really solid advice for employees, or really anyone feeling additional stress right now.

[Brad] Good conversation. Thank you Evan.

Let’s do some news…

News

[Brad] Always plenty of things to talk about in the news, and here’s a few stories that caught my eye this week:

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Brad] Alright, that’s it. Episode 83 is a wrap. We got any shout outs this week?

[Evan] We’ll see.

[Brad] Next week is Evan’s show and I think he’s sort of itchin’ to tell us his idea.

[Evan] Yep. Tune in.

[Brad] Thank you to all our listeners! Keep the questions and feedback coming. Send things to us by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @BradNigh (B-R-A-D-N-I-G-H) and this other dude is @evanfrancen (just spell his name without a space). Lastly, be sure to follow SecurityStudio (@studiosecurity) and FRSecure (@FRSecure) for goodies and things.

That’s it! Talk to you all again next week!

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 82 Show Notes – World On Fire

So, in case you missed it, the world blew up last week. Again.

This time it’s not COVID-19 that takes the headlines, it’s rioting. Rioting that was triggered by (NOT caused by) one of the most disturbing videos I’ve ever watched, that of Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin kneeling on the neck of George Floyd. As I write this, riots are taking place (or have taken place) in Atlanta, Bakersfield, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas/Fort Worth, Des Moines, Denver, Detroit, District of Columbia, Houston, Los Angeles, Louisville, Memphis, Minneapolis, New York City, Phoenix, Portland, Sacramento, and San Jose, among many others. The media is reporting riots are even taking place in other countries!

Seems like the world is on fire. While this isn’t the place for us to dig into the debate about racial injustice and inequality, we’ve all got opinions (and I’ll share mine later, in another place/time). The UNSECURITY Podcast is dedicated to information security, so we’ll stay on topic. Today’s current events are hard to process, but a relevant question is, what do current events mean to/for information security? This will be our topic.

I’m not going to recap last week/weekend personal events here either. We might discuss these things a little during the time that Brad and I catch up with each other, but otherwise, we have plenty to discuss in this episode. Let’s get to it!

These are my (Evan) show notes…


SHOW NOTES – Episode 82

Date: Monday, June 1st, 2020

Episode 82 Topics

  • Opening
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • World On Fire
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Evan] Hey there! Welcome to episode 82 of the UNSECURITY Podcast. Today’s date is June 1st, 2020. Due to a lack of personal hygiene, well mostly a hair cut, I’m your information security chia pet, Evan Francen. Joining me is my good friend and co-host Brad Nigh. Good morning Brad!

[Brad] He wishes all the listeners nothing but the best of mornings!

[Evan] Some serious stuff to talk about in today’s show, but one of the most serious things, for me at least, is checking in with you. How you doing Mr. Nigh?

Catching Up

Quick discussion about last week, the weekend, family, safety etc.

[Brad] Gives us the low down on his haps.

[Evan] I give the low down on my haps. Also, I hit a deer on my motorcycle on Saturday (again). What the?!?! Who does this?

World On Fire

[Evan] It was easy to pick a topic for this week’s show. Just when you think the world couldn’t get any crazier, we encounter the events of last week. There are so many thoughts and emotions running through our heads. Everything from sorrow to anger to frustration and everything in between. We don’t ever want to shy away from tough issues, but we also need to keep things on topic (information security) for the show. What I’d like to do is discuss today’s current events and apply them to what we do. Ultimately, what do all these things mean to information security?

Whatya say Brad, you game?

[Brad] He’s a smart and competitive son of a gun. You know he’s game!

Things to discuss:

  • FRSecure’s Information Security Principle #1; a business is in business to make money.
  • Physical security implications, lessons, ideas, etc.
  • What does this mean for cyber/technical security?
  • Some organizations are targets.
  • Personnel information security implications.
  • If COVID-19 wasn’t enough to motivate better response planning, does this?
  • Whatever other pertinent thoughts come to mind.

[Evan] Great discussion and lots of good advice I think! Let’s do some newsy stuff.

News

[Evan] Even though information security may not be dominating the news, there are still plenty of information security news stories to choose from. Here are three news stories that caught my eye.

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Evan] Alright listeners! That’s episode 82. Brad, who you got a shout out for?

[Brad] Somebody special for sure!

[Evan] Here’s mine…

[Evan] Thank you to all our listeners! You guys are a big deal to us. PLEASE be safe out there; physically, mentally, and electronically. Let us know what you think of this episode or whatever else is on your mind. Send us things (preferably not malware, but whatever) by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @evanfrancen and you can find this Brad guy @BradNigh. If you wanna follow our company’s stuff, you can follow SecurityStudio (@studiosecurity) and FRSecure (@FRSecure) for whatever cool things they’re up to.

That’s it! Talk to you all again next week!

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 81 Show Notes – Hard Truths

Welcome back! Episode 81 is sure to be a good one, but before I get started, just a few thoughts…

We just went through our first Memorial Day weekend under COVID-19. I don’t know what to say about it, other than the world seems as crazy, or crazier, than ever. Seems like 1/2 the country is out and about like everything’s normal while the other 1/2 of the country stays cooped up as though the apocalypse were upon us. To complicate matters, both halves seem to look upon each other with disdain.

We’re learning more and more each day about this coronavirus we call COVID-19. One thing appears certain, we’ve had crappy data to work with since day one. Crappy data leads to crappy decisions and crappy decisions lead to crappy outcomes. I’ll just leave it at that.

Memorial Day

This is one of my favorite holidays. I wonder how many of us know what it stands for or what it means. I wonder because I was wished a Happy Memorial Day numerous times yesterday, yet there’s nothing “happy” about it. The day is set aside to remember and honor our nation’s war dead from the Civil War onwards. It’s a day to stop what you’re doing, spend (at least) a few moments remembering the sacrifices that were made by our soldiers, and be grateful.

I suppose there are happy parts too, but these are mostly the product of what somebody else gave for you and me.

Not sure if I’m in a pissier mood today or what. No matter, I’ll snap out of it soon. Let’s get to Brad’s show notes!


SHOW NOTES – Episode 81

Date: Tuesday, May 26th, 2020

Episode 81 Topics

  • Opening
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • Hard Truths
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Brad] Welcome back! This is episode 81 of the UNSECURITY Podcast, and I’m your host this week, Brad Nigh. Today is May 26th, and joining me this morning as usual is Evan Francen.

[Evan] Has some sort of story for us I’m sure

[Brad] We’ve got a good show planned today! Before we get going though, let’s recap our week.

Catching Up

Quick discussion about last week, Memorial Day, last weekend, COVID-19, life, and other stuff.

[Evan] Evan talks about the cool things he did.

[Brad] I talk about the cool things I did.

Hard Truths

[Brad] So interestingly, at least to me, this is the first time I struggled with what to cover in our podcast.  Maybe the monotony of quarantine, the tidal wave of news around breaches and new attack vectors, or just plain old writer’s block but even sitting down to write this I don’t know where it ended up.

Because I was stuck I decided to start with news, there have been several really interesting things that have come out lately and that’s when I found this article from CSO Online 6 hard truths security pros must learn to live with and, yeah we can talk about this.

The Hard Truths

Discussion about the hard truths outlined in the CSO Online article:

  1. Hackers are probably inside your network right now
  2. You can do everything right and a careless end user can ruin everything
  3. You face critical staffing and skills shortages
  4. IoT creates new and unforeseen security problems
  5. You sometimes feel misunderstood and underappreciated
  6. Stress, anxiety and burnout come with the territory

[Brad] Good conversation, thank you Evan.

Let’s do some news…

News

[Brad] Always plenty of things to talk about in the news, and here’s a few stories that caught my eye

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Brad] That’s it, Episode 81 is a wrap. Evan, you have any shout outs?

[Evan] Of course he does!

[Brad] Here’s mine…

[Brad] Huge thank you to our listeners! Keep the questions and feedback coming. Send things to us by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @BradNigh and Evan’s @evanfrancen. Lastly, be sure to follow SecurityStudio (@studiosecurity) and FRSecure (@FRSecure) for more goodies.

That’s it! Talk to you all again next week!

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 80 Show Notes – Zero Trust

We write our show notes either at the end of the week (Friday) or at the very beginning of the next (Sunday). It’s easier to remember the things that happened during the week on Friday than Sunday, that’s for sure! Only one day away (Saturday), and it’s easy to forget all that we did.

Most weeks are crazy, for us at FRSecure and SecurityStudio, and for people in general.

Normal(ish)

Are you feeling like things are slowly returning to normal? I am, and it’s great news! Personally, I don’t like the term “new normal”. I think I don’t like it because I feel like people have twisted it to serve their own desires and/or opinions without any factual basis. Normal is normal, and the greatest abnormality (in my opinion) has been our lack of in-person contact. We’ve been built, or wired, for analog personal interaction. Digital, online interaction will never substitute for it, and the longer we go without it, the more mentally unhealthy we become.

Four Things

Last week was a great week! Four cool things stand out in particular:

  1. Last week’s podcast was awesome! I love every opportunity to chat with Brad, and it’s a blessing to hang out every Monday morning. Recording episode 79 was a great way to kick things off last week. If you missed it, we talked about information security in K12, and you should go catch it.
  2. We made great progress in helping state governments last week! Had a great conversation with Minnesota’s CISO, Rohit Tandon, on Wednesday as we discussed third-party information security risk management. This was followed by the scheduling of a similar meeting with the State of New Mexico and joining the National Association of State CIOs (NASCIO) Cybersecurity Committee on Thursday.
  3. Chris Roberts, Ryan Cloutier, and I did Episode #1 of The Security Shit Show on Thursday night. It was a ton of fun hanging out with these guys! We’re planning to do our episodes/shows live every Thursday night at 10pm CDT, record them for future playback, and use he audio for our podcast. It’s definitely entertaining for our viewers/listeners and therapeutic for us. Be sure to tune in if you can!
  4. The Daily inSANITY Check-ins are still going strong, and this past week was great! People supporting each other and helping where we can is what it’s all about. Come join us when you can.

There were many great things about last week, but these were the four that came to mind when I sat down to write these show notes.

Speaking of show notes, let’s get to it! Today we’re going to talk about Zero Trust; what it is, why it’s a hot topic today, and what you should be doing about it.


SHOW NOTES – Episode 80

Date: Monday, May 18th, 2020

Episode 80 Topics

  • Opening
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • Zero Trust
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Evan] Hey everyone! Welcome to the UNSECURITY Podcast. This is episode 80, the date is May 18th, 2020, and I’m Evan Francen. With me today is my co-host, Brad Nigh. Good morning Brad!

[Brad] We’ll see what sort of mood Brad is in this morning…

[Evan] We’ve got a good show planned today! There’s this thing called “zero trust” that people are talking about, and I thought it’d be good for you and I to discuss it. Personally, I’ve received a lot of questions about it, and I’m sure you have too Brad. Like always, before we dig in, let’s catch up. What were some highlights for you from last week and how was your weekend?

Catching Up

Quick discussion about last week, last weekend, COVID-19, life, and other stuff.

Zero Trust

[Evan] A simple Google search of Zero Trust turns up “About 691,000,000 results”. A Google search of “Zero Trust” (with quotes) turns up “About 1,940,000 results“. So, clearly there are a lot of people who know what it means, right? Here’s some returns from the first page of search results:

The fact that there are so many “what is zero trust?” search returns might be a hint that people are confused. Let’s tackle this!

Zero Trust Discussion

Let’s try to clear some of the confusion:

  • What is Zero Trust?
  • Is it really new?
  • Is Zero Trust possible?
  • If I want Zero Trust, what do I need to do?
  • What common mistakes should I look out for?

[Evan] Alright. Good talk Brad. Thanks for sharing your insight! I think our listeners have a clearer picture of Zero Trust and what it means to them. If they have additional questions or comments, they can always contact us for more!

News

[Evan] News stuff! What the heck happened in the world last week? Let’s see…

I found four articles that caught my attention. Let’s talk about them!

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Evan] Never a shortage of things to talk about in this industry is there? Well, episode 80 of the UNSECURITY Podcast is just about a wrap. Brad, you have any shoutouts?

[Brad] Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t…

[Evan] Here’s mine…

[Evan] Can’t say enough thanks to our listeners! Crazy how we run into you in all sorts of places. Stay safe and let us know how we can help you. Send things to us by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @evanfrancen and Brad’s @BradNigh. Thinking about coming to hang out at the Daily inSANITY Check-in? You can follow this on Twitter too at @InSanityIn.

There you go, have a great week!

Daily inSANITY Check-in

If you want to join us in our Daily inSANITY Check-ins, you are welcome to! Join us by going here.

Compassion Wins

As you know too well, the COVID-19 pandemic seems to have changed everything. Nothing is the same. We don’t work the same, we don’t shop the same, we don’t entertain the same, and some of us don’t even defecate the same (without toilet paper). No doubt, we’ve endured massive changes to our lives. Compounding the resulting chaos is the uncertainty about our future.

One thing hasn’t changed, and that’s our human compassion.

Through human compassion we will endure together. By our endurance we will prevail together too.

The Start of the Daily inSANITY Check-in

We knew early on, from the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, that we’d struggle with mental health. The truth is, some of us have always struggled with mental health. Sanity is precious and need to do all we can to protect it. Rather than sit idly by, and let ourselves blow in the wind, we decided to do something. On March 23rd, six days after FRSecure and SecurityStudio closed our physical offices, we started this thing called the Daily inSANITY Check-In.

Here’s what the Daily inSANITY Check-In is all about:

If you need a break from the chaos, or just want to talk about things, we’re hosting the Daily inSANITY Check-in for these reasons (among others).

Never has the world changed so significantly and affected so many in such a short period. These times are historic, and the effects of the Coronavirus (COVID-19) are not fully known. What we do know is we’ll never be the same. The prominent changes to our lives can force many of us to lose focus and even affect our mental health. Noise generated by the unrelenting media coverage, marketing, and scams only exacerbates our problems.

The purpose of the Daily inSANITY Check-in is to provide a safe place for people to discuss current events, information security things, challenges we’re facing, or whatever else comes to mind. The check-ins are short (30- to- 60-minute) daily meetings with discussion. People are always free to come and go as they please.

This is a joint effort from FRSecure and SecurityStudio, and the host is FRSecure and SecurityStudio CEO, Evan Francen. Joining Evan as co-hosts are Ryan Cloutier, SecurityStudio Principal Security Consultant and Brad Nigh. FRSecure Director of Professional Services & Innovation.

We hope you’ll come join the conversation aimed at restoring and/or maintaining our sanity!

Rules for the Daily inSANITY Check-in are:

  • Be yourself.
  • Respect everyone.
  • Respect opinions.
  • Be kind.

Anyone not playing by the rules is not welcome. Sorry.

Still Going Strong

Today is May 11th, 2020 and we still meet every day. Altogether, we’ve had seventy-nine (79) people visit, and there are many of us who’ve been here since the start. The relationships we’ve built here are real and they’re strong. These solid friendships around our “virtual water cooler” (as it’s been called by some) are incredible, and you’re invited too!

Everyone is welcome to join us. If you need some support or you’ve got some to give, come say “hi”! If you want to share your audio or video, you can. If you don’t, don’t. We’ll welcome you when you come and we’ll be here when you need us!

Sign up here.

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 79 Show Notes – K12 Cybersecurity

56 days.

That’s how many days have passed since we officially closed our (physical) offices at FRSecure and SecurityStudio. The date was March 16th, 2020, and it’s a common closure date for many organizations. It’s crazy, but I hardly remember the month of April or the first week and a half of May! I’ve either lost context, or I’m losing it in a big way. These are times like no other.

This thought about context got me thinking about how it applies to our work as information security professionals. I believe one of the biggest tells about good or bad information security leadership is the ability or inability to put risk into context. I think there’s a whole series of podcasts we could do on this topic focusing on how we can help people understand context better. The better we understand context, the better our information security decisions will be. Maybe we’ll start tackling this in a series of podcasts, starting with episode 80 next week.

This week, we’ve got a slightly different topic.

Today, in episode 79, we’re going to focus our attention on a recent report from the Consortium for School Networking (CoSN) titled “The State of Edtech Leadership in 2020“. There’s some really good information in this report, and kudos to CoSN for pulling it together!

Let’s just get to it, episode 79 show notes below…


SHOW NOTES – Episode 79

Date: Monday, May 11th, 2020

Episode 79 Topics

  • Opening
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • The State of Edtech Leadership in 2020
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Evan] Hey everyone! Welcome to the UNSECURITY Podcast. This is episode 79, the date is May 11th, 2020, and I’m Evan Francen. With me today is my co-host, Brad Nigh. Good morning Brad!

[Brad] Brad’ll say good morning I bet. He’s a super nice guy like that! 

[Evan] We’ve got a good show planned today! You and I both love helping people, and I think we’re covering some things in this episode that should help all our listeners. Before we get too deep though, let’s catch up. It’s what we do! How you doing and what’s new Brad?

Catching Up

Quick discussion about COVID-19, life, and other stuff.

The State of Edtech Leadership in 2020

[Evan] Like you Brad, I get asked a lot for my opinion about this or that in information security. If the question I get is focused, it’s easier to provide a quick answer, but when a question is vague or open-ended, it takes much longer. This hit home for me this weekend when I was asked to chime in on this article; K-12 Tech Leaders Prioritize Cybersecurity, But Many Underestimate Risks, Survey Says. There’s a lot to unpack here, and a good opinion takes more time.

[Brad] He probably hasn’t read the article yet, but we’ll see…

[Evan] One thought that came to mind when I was asked for my opinion was the concept of context. Anything taken out of context can be made to look anyway we want, good, bad, and/or anything in between. When I read the article, one statement stood out right away:

fewer than 20 percent marked any items on a list of cybersecurity threats as “high-risk” from their perspective

[Evan] What caught my attention were the words “from their perspective”. Questions popped into my head. How do Edtech leaders define “cybersecurity”? What’s on their list of “cybersecurity threats”? What’s “high-risk”? This is a can of worms.

The following are key quotes directly from the CoSN report.

Cybersecurity remains the number one technology priority for IT Leaders, yet the threat is generally underestimated.

For the third straight year, cybersecurity has ranked as the top priority. When it comes to maintaining network security, 69% of districts say they are proactive or very proactive – up significantly over last year’s 52%. Districts employ a variety of strategies to minimize risk, including the vast majority in which IT staff training is a top practice and a majority requiring teachers and principals to receive training as well. Despite concerns, the survey also found that less than a fifth of respondents (18%) have a dedicated full-time employee (FTE) whose sole job is cybersecurity. IT Leaders feel phishing scams pose the greatest risk to network security, with almost half (49%) rating them medium/high risk to high risk. Despite this, results also showed an overall trend to underestimate risk—less than a fifth of respondents considered any specific threat as high risk. This runs counter to the reality that school systems are being specifically targeted by cybercriminals with reported cyber incidents tripling in one year.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) holds both promise and peril for IT Leaders.

The majority (55%) of IT Leaders anticipate that of the emerging technologies, AI will play a significant or transformational role in teaching and learning over the next five years. However, AI also poses concerns, with privacy being the biggest. Before AI becomes adopted at scale and can deliver on its promise, privacy issues will need to be addressed.

The top three challenges persist: budget, professional development, and department silos.

These three areas have been vexing IT Leaders since 2017. While budget is often beyond district control and directly affects professional development, it is within districts’ abilities to address the existence of silos. As outlined in CoSN’s “Digital Leap Success Matrix,” cross-functional executive team leadership is integral to the development of a successful digital learning environment. Until the executive leadership breaks down the silos, IT Leaders will continue to face difficulty in achieving their district’s own technology goals.

Other items from the report

Page 14:

Districts without a dedicated person on staff use a variety of methods to monitor network security. The most common approach is sharing the responsibility across several jobs (46%) followed by incorporating network security monitoring as part of another job (30%). Outsourcing is used by 11% of respondents. A concerning 10% of respondents have an ad hoc approach and do not have anyone assigned to monitoring their district’s network security. A makeshift approach to addressing cybersecurity is one reason why “school districts are proving to be particularly enticing to hackers.”

Page 15:

When it comes to maintaining network security, 69% of districts say they are proactive or very proactive. This represents a significant increase over the prior year’s 52%. Only 13% describe their activity as reactive or very reactive, a decrease from 23% the prior year. These year-over-year results indicate that districts are highly aware of increased network attacks in K-12 environments and are increasing efforts to thwart them. It is likely that lack of resources, not lack of awareness, is responsible for the 13% described as reactive/very reactive. As one respondent lamented: How is our small district able to fend off a multitude of possible cyber threats with the staff we have?

When asked to rate their perception of various risks to network security, respondents did not make significant distinctions between threat types. The largest segment fell into the Medium risk range—low/medium, medium, high/medium. With 49% rating it medium/high risk or high risk, phishing was deemed the greatest risk. It is surprising more did not consider it a greater risk. Phishing attacks have reached the “highest level in three years” with more than two-thirds of all phishing sites using SSL protection. With SSL decreasing as a reliable indicator of security, risks increase for users unable to spot phishing sites. Less than a third (31%) of respondents perceive ransomware attacks as medium/high riisk or high risk. This risk level assessment is also likely lower than it should be as the FBI is reporting ransomware schemes are being specifically designed to target public schools.8 With less than a fifth of respondents rating any threat as high risk (phishing received the most with 16%), threats overall appear underrated. Only 5% assessed student data to be at high risk, yet, according the most recent data on reported K-12 cybersecurity incidents, “the most frequently experienced type of school-related cyber incident…..were data breaches, primarily involving the unauthorized disclosure of student data.” With the number of reported K-12 cybersecurity incidents rising—nearly triple from 2018 to 201910—perceptions in perceived risks should start to realign more closely with reality.

[Evan] No doubt, we have a lot of work to do in K-12. It’s our obligation to do everything we can to help. Check out SecurityStudio’s free resources and do a holistic information security risk assessment like the S2School we developed earlier this year. Put information security risk into perspective and make much better choices.

News

[Evan] Alright. Good talk. Thanks Brad! Let’s cover a couple of interesting news stories before we wrap this up. Here are a couple stories that caught my attention:

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Evan] Sheesh! Lots of stuff. Well, that’s it for episode 79. Brad, you have any shoutouts?

[Brad] Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t…

[Evan] Here’s mine…

[Evan] Seriously, a huge thank you to our listeners! We love your encouragement and we don’t take your advice lightly. You’re all great! Keep the questions and feedback coming. Send things to us by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @evanfrancen and Brad’s @BradNigh.

Have a great week!

The UNSECURITY Podcast – Episode 78 Show Notes – Working From Home

Keeping the show notes short again this week. It was another crazy week at FRSecure and SecurityStudio. We make progress towards our mission each and every day, regardless of COVID-19. Our mission is to fix the broken information security industry, which can be summed up by this statement:

Information security isn’t about information or security as much as it is about people.

When we help people, we help our industry. After all, would anyone care about information security is nobody suffered when things go wrong?

We’ll keep on trucking! We’re grateful for the people who put their trust in us and our credibility.

Let’s just get to it, episode 78 show notes below…


SHOW NOTES – Episode 78

Date: Monday, May 1st, 2020

Episode 78 Topics

  • Opening
  • Catching Up (as per usual)
  • Working from home
  • S2Me/S2Team
  • Listener Mail
  • News
  • Wrapping Up – Shout outs
Opening

[Evan] Hey guys and gals. Welcome to the UNSECURITY Podcast. This is episode 78, the date is May 4th, 2020, and I’m Evan Francen. With me today is my co-host, Brad Nigh. Good morning Brad!

[Brad] It is a good morning and Brad’ll be in a good mood for sure. Let’s see how he responds.

[Evan] Another good show planned for today, but before we jump in, let’s catch up. It’s sort of our usual thing to do about this time.

Catching Up

Quick discussion about some of the cool things we’re doing.

[Evan] We’ve been talking a lot lately about working remote or working from home. This has been a hot topic for some time, but since the COVID-19 outbreak, this is one of the top trending topics in the information security world. Let’s discuss another take on this, more of a future looking strategic perspective.

Working from home

Discussion about:

  1. What work from home looked like before COVID-19.
  2. What happened because of COVID-19.
  3. What the future looks like after COVID-19.

There are plenty of news articles about these topics and there’s no shortage of “expert” advice. Here’s just a few:

  • Is Working From Home The Future Of Work? – https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2020/04/10/is-working-from-home-the-future-of-work/#4260c2c846b1“An early-April 2020 MIT survey of 25,000 American workers found that 34% of those who’d been employed four weeks earlier said they’re currently working from home. Combined with the roughly 15% who said they’d been working from home pre-COVID-19, that means nearly half the U.S. workforce might now be remote workers.”
    • “The Brookings Institution’s Katherine Guyot and Isabel V. Sawhill just wrote their take on remote work and COVID-19, calling the pandemic “among other things, a massive experiment in telecommuting.”
    • ‘In a March survey of HR execs by the Gartner IT research firm, 76% said the top employee complaint during the pandemic has been “concerns from managers about the productivity or engagement of their teams when remote.”’
    • “In Buffer.com’s9 State of Remote Report, 19% of remote workers called loneliness their biggest struggle with working from home and 17% cited collaborating and/or communication.”
  • Some May Work From Home Permanently After COVID-19: Gartner – https://www.crn.com/news/running-your-business/some-may-work-from-home-permanently-after-covid-19-gartner“Gartner last week released results from a March 30 survey of 317 CFOs and business finance leaders that found 74 percent of those surveyed expect at least 5 percent of their workforce who previously worked in company offices will become permanent work-from-home employees after the pandemic ends.”
    • “According to Gartner, about 25 percent of those surveyed expect 10 percent of their employees will remain remote, 17 percent expect 20 percent will remain remote, 4 percent expect 50 percent will remain remote, and 2 percent expect over 50 percent of employees now working from home to permanently work from home after the pandemic subsides.”
  • Working from home has a troubled history. Coronavirus is exposing its flaws again – https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/12/working-from-home-history-coronavirus-uk-lockdown“According to the Office for National Statistics, only 5% of the UK labour force worked mainly from home in 2019, but well over a quarter had some experience of home-working.”
    • “With all but key workers confined to their homes, the virtual office is now the new norm – a development that could prove to have far-reaching consequences.”
  • As working from home becomes more widespread, many say they don’t want to go back – https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/as-working-from-home-becomes-more-widespread-many-say-they-dont-want-to-go-back.html“States of Play, a joint CNBC/Change Research survey of swing states, finds 42% of respondents nationwide saying they are working from home.”
    • “Once the economy reopens, 24% say they’d like to work either entirely or more from home compared to how they worked before, while 55% plan to head back to the office.”
    • “Some 60% report being either as productive or even more productive than they were working from the office.”

But what about information security?

There is no shortage of information security tips for people working from home. Just a small sampling:

A different approach – S2Me and S2Team

[Evan] In early 2019, SecurityStudio release its first version of S2Me. The S2Me was released (well ahead of COVID-19) to gauge people’s information security habits at home and S2Team was a way to share the results with an employer without violating privacy at home. Last week, SecurityStudio released version two of S2Me and I’d like to talk about all this.

  • What is S2Me?
  • What is S2Team?
  • How do S2Me and S2Team work together?
    • S2Me is a simple, personal information security risk analysis tool for use at home. S2Me helps people understand their risk related to security, privacy, and safety. Once these risks are understood, S2Me attempts to motivate people to build better information security habits at home.
    • S2Team is a collection of S2Me aggregated results to help organizations understand their employees information security habits. Organizations use S2Team to develop better, more personal information security training programs.
    • A couple of quotes from the “Introduction to S2Team and S2Me Topic Descriptions” draft document:
      • “The problem isn’t people. The problem is managing risk related to people.”
      • “People are creatures of habit. People will occasionally deviate from their habits, but habits are their default. Habits create peoples’ baseline and become nearly (or in some cases completely) involuntary.”
      • “People choose to form new habits because if they desire the positive outcome or because they fear a negative one.”
  • A quick peek into S2Me.
  • A quick peek into S2Team

[Evan] I think we’re on the right track, trying to help people build better information security habits at home where everyone ultimately benefits.

Listener Mail

[Evan] A loyal listener, one who got a shout out from me last week, Jason Dance, sent us this article that I thought was interesting and worthy of a brief discussion; It’s Not Just Zoom. Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, and Webex Have Privacy Issues, Too. – https://www.consumerreports.org/video-conferencing-services/videoconferencing-privacy-issues-google-microsoft-webex/

Brief discussion

[Evan] Alright, now some newsy things quick.

News

[Evan] It’s easy to find interesting things to talk about in our industry! Here’s a few that caught my attention:

Wrapping Up – Shout outs

[Evan] Wow. Lots of things. Well, episode 78 is almost in the can. Brad, got a shout out or two?

[Brad] Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t…

[Evan] Here’s mine…

[Evan] Seriously, a huge thank you to our listeners! We love your encouragement and we don’t take your advice lightly. You’re all great! Keep the questions and feedback coming. Send things to us by email at unsecurity@protonmail.com. If you’re the social type, socialize with us on Twitter, I’m @evanfrancen and Brad’s @BradNigh.

Have a great week!